MADE EP.4 | Katherine White on building a 32-year career at Plastribution

Kiron: Welcome to our next episode of the Made Podcast. I am very excited to be joined by Katherine White, MD of Plastribution. Welcome, Katherine.

Katherine: Hi. Thank you so much, Kiron.

Kiron: No, that's all right. Well, you can probably notice from the background we've got a bit of a change of environment, which we're excited to try and build on, but we're actually at ENGEL's office in Warwick.

Kiron: First time for you-

Katherine: It is. My first time here today. So it's been great to have a little look around.

Kiron: Had a little tour. Wayne's given you a tour.

Katherine: He has.

Kiron: Is it what you expected or...?

Katherine: I don't know, actually. You asked me earlier whether it was what I expected, and I don't know what my preconceptions were. But, no, I've really liked it. It's got a really nice environment. You really pick up on the culture of the people who work here, which has been great. I've been really impressed with the facilities. Learnt a lot about what ENGEL do, which has been good to know as well. So yeah, it's been a really good experience. And they've got air conditioning.

Kiron: Which is welcome.That always helps. I guess, being at Plastribution, you probably don't get to see some of the moulders. Sorry, not the moulders, the actual machinery side of it.

Katherine: Absolutely.

Kiron: So it's been a bit of an insight. For anyone that doesn't know what Plastribution do, do you mind just giving us a summary of what you guys do?

Katherine: Yeah, sure. So we are a distributor of plastic raw materials. Actually, we're part of a group, so we do distribute other plastic-related products, so films and foils and sheets, but all sort of polymer-related, where we're sort of using our expertise in terms of technical knowledge, supply chain management, that type of thing. So all sort of focused around sort of the same core business. But we've been established since '79 and do a full range of polymers, so some of the more sort of standard, um, commoditised materials like polyethylene, polypropylene, all the way through to really technical engineering polymers. A big focus on service, so again, lots and lots of tech support, uh, lots of trying to build on sort of customer relationships and think about what our customers really need. So again, we've got that in common with ENGEL as well, which has been, yeah, real- really nice to see.

Kiron: Nice synergy there.

Katherine: Yeah, absolutely.

Kiron: So a bit about your personal story then. Usually anyone I speak to in the industry didn't dream of being in the plastics industry. We all kind of ended up here in some form of chance.

Katherine: Yeah ...

Kiron: Can you just take us back a little bit to, you know, life growing up. Where, where, where are you originally from? Where did you go to school?

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: All that kind of stuff.

Katherine: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, like you say really, complete accident to end up in the polymer industry. But going back to school, as you've asked then, yeah, I grew up quite local to the office, in Ashby-de-la-Zouch. Actually, I went to school in Ashby, hence actually after uni coming back close to, being near to my mum and dad 'cause got no money. And,yeah, just thought I'd be at Plastribution for a really, perhaps a short period of time. Just got a job in sort of customer service 'cause-

Kiron: So were you just looking for jobs locally and just happened to stumble across them

Katherine: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, my degree originally was in economics, so nothing at all to do with polymers.

Kiron: Still helpful though in business.

Katherine: Yeah. Still helpful, absolutely, yeah. But, no, I was just looking for a job near to my parents so that I didn't have to pay any rent. I could pay back my student debt. Thought I'd get a job sort of in a sales environment because I liked people. I liked talking to people. Anyone who knows me will vouch for that. I do like talking. So, yeah, so it was, it was that really. They didn't really want too much experience. I think at that time they were really wanting people with the right sort of personality and approach to customer service, and then got the job at Plastribution and just thought, "Wow, there's a whole industry here that I've got absolutely no idea about at all." I knew nothing about plastics. I didn't even know that there were different types of plastic. So yeah, it was a whole new world, and I started to find it really interesting.

Kiron: So what, when you originally started that role, in your mind, were you thinking this might be a one or two year stopgap?

Katherine: Yeah, absolutely.

Kiron: And how many years in are you now?

Katherine: 32

Kiron: 32 years later, and here we are

Katherine: 32 years later ...

Kiron: Which is incredible because it's such a rare thing, I think, in any business really, to have people that have been part of a business for so long.

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: At what point did you find that there was a bit of a point in your journey at Plastribution where it became, "Oh, I, I work for Plastribution and now I'm actually, you know, massively defined by my role in Plastribution and, and Plastribution is a huge part of me now"?

Katherine: Yeah. No, I think, initially as I said, I found the materials quite fascinating, so with no knowledge at all of different types of plastic. The first thing was, you know, learning about new materials and I remember being particularly sort of blown away by polyacetal, POM. Understanding a bit more about metal replacements, thinking, "Wow, how can plastic," which was something that I sort of thought was perhaps quite cheap, replace metal in so many applications and have such amazing mechanical properties? So it started to fascinate me. The other thing that I loved about Plastribution was there was a quite a small team of people at that point. I think there was probably 25 of us when I joined the company, 30 max, and everyone was really committed to delivering exceptional customer service. No one had heard of us, so we'd ring up and it'd be Plastri... No one could say the name. In fact, our current sales manager, Dionne, couldn't. She was a receptionist at the time. She couldn't even say Plastribution, so she'd be Plastribushion. So we still tease her about that all the time. But, I don't know, it was just really exciting to sort of think, well, there's a group of people here who are really like-minded and sort of committed to, I don't know, growing the business, and it really felt that we could influence the way that the business was shaped and our approach to the industry. So it was sort of quite exciting to be part of. I can't remember exactly when it was that I got hooked, but I thought I want to learn more about the materials first and foremost, but it felt like an exciting place. And I wanted to be part of that journey.

Kiron: So the people really kind of made that journey what it was.

Katherine: Absolutely, and I think they still do really in that, you know, there's lots of people who sell plastic, if that's how you want to look at it. You know, a lot of other companies have a similar range of plastic raw materials. Some have identical, same branding materials. Some of the products we sell are very me-too, so what really makes the difference is the people that you work with and the team. And again, I think we're all really bought into try to do a really good job and to be better, to improve all the time. And it's that's, that's a bit of it that I, I really love, yeah, the people side.

Kiron: Well, we can talk about it now because you're in the role of MD, which I'm really excited to, to, to discuss that journey with you. But did you ever consider moving away from Plastribution, looking at different industries, even different companies within the industry? Is that something you must have thought about?

Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. At various times, of course. And again, I think it's, you know, once you've been in the industry a while, then you tend to be known. So it, it's sort of easy to think of moving to competitors, but I think one of the things I've valued as well as the people has been, as we've grown in particular, it's given a number of us the opportunity to try different roles and to, I don't know, to feel like we're part of something which has meant a lot. And I think particularly as I've been involved in the management team and sort of running the business, then, I don't know, I've found that really exciting to try to shape the business in the way that we want to, and, you know, really want it to be a really great place for other people to work and to develop their careers as I have really. It's something I'm really passionate about. So I have thought about moving a, a couple of times over the years, but, yeah, as I say, I've been really, really lucky to enjoy a fantastic career at Plastribution, and I think, I'm motivated for other people to have that same opportunity and that sort of kept me there.

Kiron: Well, I think it's super inspiring. There'll be, you know, men and women who are, you know, young and in the industry now, and seeing and hearing stories like yourself who've been at companies for over 30 years, I think says everything you need to say about the environment that you're in and, and also for you, the sort of person that you are, 'cause that says a lot about you as an individual as well.

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: Is there anything since your time at Plastribution over the last 30-plus years, plastics and the industry has changed a lot I'm sure.

Katherine: Massively, yeah.

Kiron: Sustainability comes to mind first and foremost. Sure. Would that be a fair comment?

Katherine: Absolutely. I mean, I think the industry that I joined actually has, has changed massively. I think the first thing to say when I first joined was that it was incredibly male-dominated. So I think, when I look at the industry now and the degree of representation, then that's really changed, and I think for me, for the better. Not to say that I think it's about numbers of men versus women, but I just think the industry overall needs to attract and retain the best talent that it can, irrespective of whether it's a man or a woman. So I think to show ourselves as a more diverse industry is really, really important if we wanna get the best people to work in it and stay in it, for sure. So that's been something that's really changed. And again, I know Engel, for example, are a company that is really, trying to be much more inclusive and, and championing making the industry a lot more, I don't know, friendly, I guess, in terms of people's perception when they join. So yeah, that's, that's really changed, I think, for the better. Yeah, the perception of plastics has completely changed.Again, I think as I initially learned about plastics then, I was really proud about polymers. I remember, learning more at uni actually about polymers, and at that time there were local education colleges and, and universities doing polymer courses, so I was very lucky. That's a change actually for the worst perhaps in the industry, and perhaps come onto that. But, yeah, so I was really excited about some of the developments, in terms of plastic raw materials, in terms of their capabilities. I remember polypropylene, for example, because of new additives and clarifying agents and so on, all of a sudden could compete with other materials and help processors save money and so on. So there was a lot of developments as well in terms of material technology that I found really interesting, and that's continued. Certainly though plastics were valued, I think, and certainly the last, what, 8, 10 years, I think most of the narrative really has been around, negativity around perhaps not plastics themselves, but certainly the impact of how we dispose of plastics. So, certainly a large part of our work at Plastribution in the last five, eight years has really been around the whole sustainability piece, trying to help our customers understand more about it. And that might actually be appreciating the benefits of plastic, that plastics is still the most sustainable choice, but perhaps being able to have more meaningful conversations with their customers to help them understand that. But yeah, it's been a big focus for us, in terms of what we do and in terms of the problem of the perception of plastics.

Kiron: Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I have so many conversations with customers where we'll be looking at, like, a cost-effective, sustainable option, and like you said, there are some incredible additives now, and even the processes of making products is becoming more and more sustainable.

Katherine: Yeah.

Kiron: But I've had so many briefs land on my desk that they've then said, "Yeah, we've decided not to, to go plastic." And go, "Oh, why? It's like, it's a biodegradable option." And they go... "Oh yeah, but, but the, the public still see it as plastic."

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: "And they think it's bad," even though it's not.

Katherine: Yeah.

Kiron: And that's that whole education piece. And it's important that we can, on platforms like this, talk about the reality.

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: Because like you said there, it's not necessarily the plastic that's the problem, it's what people choose to do with it maybe after the product life Is there anything that you've found that's been, I don't know, maybe effective, or have you got some thoughts on how we can maybe educate the public about the reality of the market? Yeah.

Katherine: Sure. Again, I think, it's education that the public, particularly school-aged kids if we can. So again, a number of us spend time in our local schools and so on, trying to educate and inform. And we've got a number of STEM ambassadors as well at Plastribution, which again, I think is another really important industry initiative. We also do a lot to support customers with training, because we're in a fortunate position working closely with supply partners that we do often have some insight into the things that they're developing. So it's around trying to share that information. There's some fantastic developments going on in terms of product performance. So making sure that we're helping our customers understand what's, again, a really complex and confusing narrative really, and helping them share information with their employees and then their end users, again, with the ideal really of helping people make more informed choices.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, we could go on for hours probably about how, you know, the education system et cetera could probably help benefit the next generations. But we will continue to do our bit and help where we can. Going back to your story a little bit more as an individual. So from where you started to becoming MD. Were there a couple of different roles that you swapped between?

Katherine: Yeah, yeah. I started in the office in internal sales, again, really building relationships with customers, trying to look after the needs. I found that really rewarding. I then spent a little bit of time visiting customers, which again, I really liked the interaction. I liked learning more about their businesses and so on. But most of my career has been involved in product group, what we call product management, and that is really the liaison with the suppliers. So I'd be looking after the relationships with certain key supply partners. Most of my experience is on the polyolefin side, so polyethylene, polypropylene. And really the team at Plastribution acts really as the link between the supplier partner and then the sales team. So with regard to the supplier, they're trying to understand what's going on in the market in terms of price and availability. Also sort of looking to understand what the supplier's objectives are as well. So sometimes a particular supplier would want us to focus on, I don't know, identifying a new business development area that's a priority for them, for example. So, we would take that information from the supplier about priorities or message to the market, and then pass that on internally to the sales team to help them share that with the customer really. So it's really the link between the supplier and the customer. And a big part of that, certainly on the polyolefin side, was understanding what's going on in the market. So again, prices can be really volatile. Again, we've just had some turbulent months, that's for sure, in terms of both price and unavailability.

Kiron: I was gonna ask you about that.

Katherine: Yeah. Gosh.

Kiron: How's that to navigate what's going on in the world when you've got clients here in the UK saying and this stuff all comes from globally, all over the world, doesn't it?

Katherine: It does, yeah. And actually that's where, so my original degree was in economics, which had nothing to do with plastics, but actually it's been really helpful, as you said, in terms of sort of understanding how these global dynamics can have an effect in the UK. But, it's been really, really challenging because you're very mindful of serving customer needs and in times of volatility, again, ensuring continuity of supply, also helping customers understand, pricing volatility is extremely challenging really. So yeah, it-it's-- there's a lot of frantic work, to be quite honest, behind the scenes in trying to ensure that the supply chains are robust and that we've still got material flowing. And then trying to share the information that we have with customers. We do things called price know-how and price know-how snippets, where as we're picking up market information, we're trying to pass that on to our customers to, again, help them explain to their end users, but also to make pricing decisions themselves and just to try to better understand the sort of the, you know, the turbulent situation. So yeah, it's been a really challenging time. But again, I think as a distributor, it's-- we have a really important role to play in trying to help our customers understand what's going on.

Kiron: Yeah. 'Cause I was gonna say, I mean, let-- if we were, say, discussing a brief between you and I, and I said, "Oh, I need a load of PE from wherever you might get it from over a 12-month period”.

Katherine: Sure ...

Kiron: Is that something that we would have to kind of be discussing monthly, or would you be looking at ordering almost like a 12-month supply of a call off? Like how would you tackle something like that?

Katherine: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And it, again, it depends on the supply partner. So a lot of this is understanding your need as a customer in terms of does it have to be that supplier, and what that supplier's position would be. So most supply partners actually like us to forecast, and we'll have an allocation. So sometimes buying 12 months worth of material in one go might not suit the way that they want us to order. Although I think it's fair to say the last few years pre this Middle Eastern war, actually the market's been relatively long, so it's a bit easier then to secure more material. Obviously, if someone was asking the last few months, then that wouldn't have been possible at all. We've been trying to operate an allocation to ensure that we're being fair with the supply that we have got. But let's say that we could buy 12 months worth of material, then yes, there we'd be looking at sort of service solutions to say, "Okay, security of supply is clearly important. How can we give you that continuity in terms of pricing?" If we lock the price in, then, we'd need to look at, again, some of the costs associated. But for some customers, that's- The most important thing to them, they want the security in terms of pricing so that they can then give their end users that continuity in terms of pricing as well. But again, that's where we feel as a distributor, we've got an important role to play because if we understand our customers' needs, we can try and tailor our service offering to meet those needs really.

Kiron: And then I guess you hold so much stock in the UK.

Katherine: Yeah, we do. Yeah.

Kiron: So if things get held up somewhere in the world.

Katherine: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So we've got, we use a stock ordering system that's looking at our average demands. We try and take into account forecasts as well, and a degree of safety stock as well so that we've always got some stock in the UK where possible. Again, that's as a distributor. Particularly as production has moved further and further away from Europe. Someone has to hold stock, close to where the polymer's gonna be used, and again, as a distributor, that's something that we think's a really important part of what we do, our service offering.

Kiron: It's a bit of a minefield really, isn't it? It is. Trying to piece it all together.

Katherine: It is.

Kiron: So your role of MD, relatively new, fair to say?

Katherine: Yeah, yeah, just over a year now.

Kiron: So just over a year. How long did you know about this ahead of the announcement?

Katherine: Not that long actually, really. So, we're owned by a Japanese company called Itochu. Again, I think the Japanese culture is quite an interesting one in terms of how they make decisions and degrees of sign-off in different places. So, yeah, not so long before. So I knew that our previous MD, who's now our chairman, Mike, had nominated me, but the actual process of getting approval from Itochu, I've no idea what was going on behind the scenes. But I just tried not to think about it really.

Kiron: So what was your, what was your role before you became MD?

Katherine: So I was commercial director before. Since 2010, I sort of thought I knew how the company worked and so on. But yeah, there's still been a pretty steep learning curve, I think it's fair to say, since I took over the role as MD. So clearly I didn't quite know as much about it as I thought I did.

Kiron: And you appreciate what Mike's been doing there all those years.

Katherine: Absolutely, I do.

Kiron: Has he stepped completely away from the company or?

Katherine: No. So, Mike's got the role of chairman now, and he's been spending some time looking after some special projects really. So, Hitachi, the parent company, are very growth hungry and we do want to grow the core business. But he's also been looking at some acquisition opportunities as well. Which is great because again, for him to have the time dedicated to go and really look at those projects is really, really valuable, I think. Especially for me in the first year or so then to try to carve out time to do those additional things would've been impossible. But he's also on hand really for... I think at first, my first few weeks, literally, I was meeting him every week with a list of 20 different things to ask him about that I was just thinking, "I have no idea about this," but the list has got significantly shorter as time's gone on.

Kiron: That's a positive. Things are going okay. So,Mike's role as chairman, was that a new role or was there was a chairman before him?

Katherine: No, no. That's a a new role. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Kiron: So that's a slightly different dynamic again to try and work through.

Katherine: Yeah, sure. But Mike and I have worked together for... Well, he was, he recruited me basically, so yeah, we've got a long history of working together in different roles. So, that's worked pretty well, and I appreciate his support.

Kiron: Good. So over 30 years in injection moulding and plastics industry as a whole. As a young woman entering our industry, which is fair to say even now, very male-dominated. I'm sure it was more so then.

Katherine: Yeah.

Kiron: And now being, you know, a female MD in our industry, is there any challenges? Were you apprehensive about anything, even where you started and, and then taking on the role that you have now?

Katherine: Sure. Yeah, no, I think, in some ways it was a little bit intimidating when I first started, certainly industry events and so on, because literally you would stick out like a sore thumb 'cause there were hardly any women at all.

Kiron: So how old were you when you first started going to industry events?

Katherine: I guess probably, I don't know, 23, 24 when I first started to go. A young woman. But again, I've always had sort of lots of male friends as well as female friends. I'm pretty comfortable in male company, so I don't think I found that intimidating per se, and particularly when you got to know people then generally people in the industry are really lovely people. So I think it was just more the idea of it I found intimidating at first. But again, Mike, my boss at the time, has always been really supportive. There was also, um, a lady called Terry Harris who works at one of our biggest suppliers. She actually works at Plastribution now, a company called Carmel Olefins, and she was a great role model. We'd sort of face a lot of these situations together. There'd be sort of 500 people and a couple of women and, yeah, so that was fine. She was a really great support. I think as much as it was intimidating at times, and sometimes there were v- there weren't negative things said or assumptions made, but I thought it's given me lots of advantages as well in that people would tend to remember you 'cause there's not so many women, so people would remember my name. I don't know, I found it perhaps easier to, to, to meet people or chat to people at industry events. So yeah, it was challenging, but actually it gave me a lot of advantage as well. And I think as time's gone on then, you know, Plastribution are a really big champion of women in the plastics industry, in the workplace generally. That's something that's been really important, not just to me, but,the whole of the management team, male and female. And as I said to you before really, the industry just needs to attract people in and keep, keep the right talent. So yeah, it has been challenging, but it's been a great opportunity and I think, you know, there's many, many more women represented in the industry now, and I'd like to think that it's a friendlier industry or appears to be a friendly industry for women to join. I think we've all got an important role to play in that.

Kiron: Yeah. Oh, 100%. I mean, did you find especially kind of the, the more old school mindset when you started, didn't take you seriously?

Katherine: Definitely didn't take me seriously. Again, I remember speaking to a customer about, you know, a particular material processing issue, which I understood about 'cause I'd subsequently gone on and done a course at Burton Technical College and my polymer science course at Coventry Uni as well. So I had a good technical understanding and you know, I remember this plastic processor really clearly just kept saying, "Well, you know, you better go and check that with your boss."

Kiron: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Katherine: But in the end, I just, I don't know, you just gotta sort of think, "Well, it's not that person's fault, is it? That's just how they've been brought up or their perception of the industry," and try not to take it to heart too much. They didn't know me or know what I knew. But yeah, just things like that were quite hard and there's been some scenarios that I would hope my daughters don't have to go through in the workplace as well. I think it's up to us how we handle those or our perception of those. And, I think if anything, it made me more determined to think, "Well, I'll show you."

Kiron: Yeah. Yeah.

Katherine: "I can do a good job."

Kiron: Yeah. Like you said, I think it's a mindset thing. I mean, you said it at the start there when we talked about that question, there were opportunities that came from being a woman in the industry. The fact that you kind of recognised them and almost grasped them with two hands to say, "I can... I am more recognisable and rememberable," and use that to your advantage. Not necessarily everyone would have that mindset. But, you mentioned your daughters. Do you have two daughters?

Katherine: Yeah, I do. I've got two daughters. Yeah.

Kiron: Two daughters. Yeah. If they said to you they wanna join the plastic industry-

Katherine: Yep ...

Kiron: what would you think?

Katherine: I would say, "Brilliant. Do it." Because again, I've been really lucky. I've had a fantastic career. I've traveled a lot, met some incredible people in this country and again, abroad working with sort of supply partners. So yeah, it's given me fantastic opportunities, the chance to try different roles as well and to see what I really enjoyed, and I think it's a brilliant industry. And again, you know, there's some really exciting opportunity in terms of what we talked about sustainable materials earlier as well.It's an exciting time to be part of the plastics industry, so.

Kiron: Yeah, I think I definitely agree. I think there's definitely a future in plastics, and it is exciting to see where it's gonna develop. Would you, with your daughters, if they wanted to join the industry, would you say come to Plastribution or would you want them to go and do something else?

Katherine: Not a chance. Definitely somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I know some families work really well together. I previously worked, so my husband actually was previously at Plastribution as well, and it created some interesting conversations over the dining table at night. So even that was a bit of a challenge. So no. My daughters are teenagers at the moment as well, so there's no chance that they'd wanna work with me.

Kiron: Yeah,

Katherine: Yeah. Absolutely not. They can just about tolerate me, I think, when it comes to-

Kiron: Well, we'll see. I remember my parents said, "Go and do your own thing," and here I am, so.

Katherine: Yeah.

Kiron: Who knows where they'll end up? But that is super exciting.

Katherine: Sure.

Kiron: II think we'll finish with our usual segment. Made or Broken. So I'm gonna ask you a few questions.

Katherine: Yep.

Kiron: So just quick fire-

Katherine: Okay ...

Kiron: whatever springs to mind first. Back yourself or seek reassurance?

Katherine: Oh, God. That's so difficult.Both. Can I say both?

Kiron: No, you have to pick one.

Katherine: Oh, God. At the minute, I'm gonna say seek reassurance 'cause I'm relatively new in the role, whereas I think when I'm confident in the role, then definitely back myself.

Kiron: So probably shift from back yourself eventually would probably be the answer.

Katherine: Yeah, definitely.

Kiron: Specialise or stay broad?

Katherine: Ooh, gosh. That's another good... These are meant to be quick. These are really difficult to answer. It's all right. Specialise or stay broad. Specialise, I'm gonna s- but again, I would say that changes, so perhaps it's good to have some specialism, but then the real skill actually is from that bit, being able to go broad.

Kiron: But if I had, if I had to pin you for one.

Katherine: Oh, God. Okay. I'm gonna say, stay broad.

Kiron: Be liked or be respected?

Katherine: Be respected.

Kiron: Speak up or stay quiet?

Katherine: Speak up.

Kiron: Innovation or consistency?

Katherine: Oh gosh, both of those are important, aren't they? I'm gonna say consistency

Kiron: Routine or variety?

Katherine: Variety.

Kiron: Told you they got a bit easier.

Katherine: Yeah, they did get so much easier.

Kiron: That was all right, wasn't it? Well thank you very much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed the episode, and your tour of ENGEL as well.

Katherine:Yeah. Thank you.

Kiron: That has been our episode with Katherine. You've been listening to Made Podcast, a podcast that talks to those that have made it in the industry that makes things. Thank you of course, to our sponsors ENGEL, and for hosting us in their site in Warwick, and we're excited to use this site a little bit more often, and we'll catch you in the next episode.