MADE EP.3 | Annie Sinadinou on Bringing Manufacturing In-house

Kiron:  Cool. So I think we'll go straight into it. We are joined by Annie Sinadanou from STI, managing director. Great to have you on the pod. Thanks for joining us. We try to start the pods right from the beginning, just to get an idea of who you are, where you came from, and how you got to where you are today. So, if my memory serves me correctly, born and raised in Corfu?

Annie: That's the one, yep.

Kiron: Yeah. So I probably should be saying, "Yiasou, ti kanis?".

Annie: Yes. Polye kala, poli sou.

Kiron: Bet you didn't know I had that in me, did you, Jack? So where, where did this young girl from Corfu coming to the UK to be a managing director of an injection moulding company... It's quite a story.Can you take us back to, to life in Corfu and, and what that was like growing up?

Annie: Yeah. Well, first of all, I wanna say thank you so much for having me here today. It's, uh, a great honor, and I think what you're doing is fantastic work, sharing people's stories. 'Cause I think a lot of the time people look at you as a, a person running a company or in a company, and they forget that there's actually a human being behind all that seriousness that comes into everyday work. So I guess it's worth mentioning that I've actually been in the UK half my life now. So I left Corfu when I was 18, or just under 18, and I've just turned 36.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: So yeah, 50/50, so it's, it's come to that point. I, so my mum's actually English. She was born and bred in Buckinghamshire.She moved out to Corfu on holiday and she met my dad, and that's where I came along.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: But she's alway- she always brought me up with the idea that I, I wouldn't be staying in Paghi, which is the village that I'm from. A very, very small village that's probably about maybe today 300 people.

Kiron: Wow.

Annie: So she always said to me, "You're going to England as soon as you can." And she gave me that opportunity by pushing me.

Kiron: Was that purely from an idea of to try and build a career outside of Corfu?

Annie: Yeah. Education, career, obviously going back so many years, things have changed. Like, Greece is... You probably hear it so much in the news now and people are going on holiday more there and stuff. But in terms of opportunities for young people, you either had to do really, really well at school and go off to university or for people that weren't so privileged, it was a bit harder. But my mum was very, very good at making friends and when we were growing up, she had a pool of friends that we could visit, and live with here in the UK. I was luckily, luckily enough to move in with my guardian as I still call her today, Louise Hood, and I moved to a little place called Newmarket which is just outside of Cambridgeshire. And there I spent the first few months working for a-

Kiron: So how old are you at this point?

Annie: So still under 18.

Kiron: Right. Okay. So, so your primary school, secondary school was all, all in Corfu?

Annie: All in Greece.

Kiron: Yeah. Okay. And then at this point you're what, 16, 17-ish or?

Annie: 17 and a half, yeah.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: Just, just before 19.

Kiron: Okay. And you're thinking about what university life and that kind of thing or?

Annie: Yeah. So when I first came here, all... One of my ambitions was to join the military.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: Don't ask me why.

Kiron: Any particular area within the military?

Annie: No, no. I was just always very athletic. I loved the fitness element. And I thought if I join the army, I guess there is a reason. Feeling part of, of a team-

Kiron: Yeah

Annie: ... and being part of a, something bigger. That's what I wanted.

Kiron: Did you play team sports growing up and that kind of thing?

Annie: Yeah. Loads of football.

Kiron: I find that, I find that's a real common thing. Like anyone I speak to where they still have that team ethos, common thing seems to be they grew up in team environments. I played a lot of rugby growing up as well and I find that similarity to what you're talking about. And I think that's something we'll touch on it in a bit as we progress through the pod, but I'm sure that's very prevalent in the way you're now, leading and running the company you're with now is that kind of team aspect of it, which is kind of ingrained from you from a, from a young age. So yeah, sorry. Carry on.

Annie: So I played volleyball. I was captain of the volleyball team. And I didn't think I should be 'cause I wasn't like the, I guess most, the loudest or the most confident. But my teacher at the time was like, "No, I need, I want you to be the, you know, the person that's bringing people on and sending people off pitch," and all the rest of it. So that was, I guess, my first really, role in leading a team. And then I played football and I-- back in the day, again, football in Greece, girls football teams were not available, so I used to play a lot with the guys. And then when I got here I ended up in college, playing for the football team in college. One of the things I always say to them, we did play against Arsenal Ladies. We lost 7-2, but we-

Kiron: That's a claim to fame

Annie: ... played against Arsenal Ladies, so that was a great experience. And, you know, being-- coming over from Greece, it did feel... There was times where it was very lonely.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: And you, you're almost like an outsider 'cause you're not English. You're you know, you're foreign. But I must say that I felt more at home here than I ever did when I was in Greece.

Kiron: Why do you think that, that was?

Annie: I think 'cause my mum was English, and she was probably one of the first English women in the village that had us, and we were quite free as children. We didn't have necessarily the cultural restrictions that most Greek children had, and I think that separated us a little bit from, from the rest.

Kiron: But- Was she, was she welcomed there, do you think?

Annie: I think she was the first lady in the pub in the village.

Kiron: Okay. Yeah.

Annie: So I think she kind of like broke that rule of- Yeah females going to the coffee bar.

Kiron: Pub probably fell very quiet when she walked in.

Annie: So, but my mum, yeah, she's very, very strong personality. Like I said, she's, yeah, very good at making friends and being an influencer, I guess, in a way. And a lot of the strength that I carry today, I do carry from her. So where was I? College, yeah.

Kiron: So you, you were talking about college. So was it college or university that you went?

So yeah, so I went to college, and I wanted to, like I say... Well, there was a few things. I wanted to join the sports and science course.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: But, because my English wasn't as strong at the time, the college person that I spoke to when I did the interview, they said, "Have you considered doing public services?" And I thought, "Ah, okay. I wanna join the military." "Maybe this is a, a, a good sign." And during my... I did two years of public services, and it was great. It was very different in terms of a course. We got to go out and do work experience with the fire brigade, police. We did, we actually ended up in Reading in the REME for five days.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: And we did all our military training there.

Kiron: Wow.

Annie: We did outdoor activities, camping, the lot, and then I realised actually, "Oh God, I'm not sure whether this is for me."

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: But from that, I did work experience with the Cambridgeshire Fire Brigade, and that was through a friend of a friend that got us in, and we had to do it as part of our, one of our assignments. And I really enjoyed the element of getting in the van, like the, the firetruck, and going to events, and just the chaos of driving around, and turning up and actually helping people in situations that they couldn't get themselves out of. But then after a few sessions of doing that, I found myself up until 4:00 AM waiting for something to happen.

Kiron: Right. Okay.

Annie: And I thought, "Mm."

Kiron: So how old are you at this point?

Annie: "I'm not sure about this." At this stage I was 24, and I then got approached by our, the MD, Steve Hunt, that has recently resigned. He's now chair.

Kiron: So how did you guys come in contact?

Annie: So I knew him through a lady called Nina, who was one of my mom's friend, who also lived in Greece years and years ago.

Kiron: So there was a mutual connection.

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: Right. Okay.

Annie: So he approached me, yeah, just as I was finishing uni, and he said, "I've got this opportunity starting in Birmingham. Would you like to join me?" And I was like, "Yeah, why not?"

Kiron: Right. Okay.

Annie: You know, it's in fire security, it's the other side.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: So you're almost, like, preventing things from happening.

Kiron: And what was, what was this role that he was asking about?

Annie: So it was customer service. Helping out in the sales department, order processing, quotations, taking phone calls from engineers that were trying to fit our products.

Kiron: And how did you feel about this office-based role, considering what you spoke about, your interests lay?

Annie: Yeah. It was very different. Um, I struggled a lot on the phones. This will probably make a colleague of mine, Michaela Ford, laugh quite a bit because I remember her taking me into the boardroom and saying, "You need to start picking the phones up." So it's quite ironic how I've got to this stage. But she... It was very difficult understanding people on the phone with the accents.

Kiron: Okay. So, so at this point, you've been in the UK, what, like six years-ish?

Annie: Six years, yeah.

Kiron: And you touched upon the kind of the language difficulties. I was gonna ask you, so growing up then, does, does your mum speak fluent Greek?

Annie: Not fluent, but she does a really good job at it, yeah.

Kiron: So mostly in the household you'd be speaking-

Annie: English, yeah.

Kiron: You'd be speaking English at home?

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: Okay, fine. But then coming here, there's all the different, like you said, dialects and regions and all the rest of it.

Annie: I worked in an Irish pub for years.

Kiron: Okay, yeah.

Annie: As a part-time job, and all I could figure out was Bacardi and Coke.

Kiron: Yeah. Gonna go straight in the deep end there, blimey.

Annie: But when I, when you can lip read people's, what they're saying you can probably get the gist of where they're coming from, especially when it's drinks.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: It doesn't get... The variety of it doesn't get too much, does it?

Kiron: I think we spoke about it, 'cause I found it interesting when we first met, how the Greek accent within yous disappeared now. Do you mind sharing a bit about your, your psychology behind why you think that might be?

Annie: Yeah. So I've read, and I don't know how true this is that when people hold onto an accent, it's 'cause they hold onto the roots of where they came from. So you might meet a South African or an Australian that's been here for, like, 35, 40 years, but they still have a very, very strong accent.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: And yeah, it's 'cause you've got a link to where you were from. And I think I very... When I came here, I felt like I had to let that go. I had to let the whole Greek connection just... That needs to go to one side. I need to focus on being British, learning how to speak the language and getting on with it, basically.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: And I, I do think that there's definitely a part of me... 'Cause people always say to me, like, "Why are you here? Why, what are you doing here?" But like I said to you, I felt more at home here in a way, in a strange way than and more welcomed, strangely, than I did when I was back in Greece.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: So I think that helped let the accent go.

Kiron: And then, so I mean, you, you obviously they say, you know, home is where the heart is. You obviously found a connection here with the country and have fully adopted everything that it's about. But at 24 then, you said doing the customer service, you felt that there was still some difficulties there. We're not, we're not, you know, a huge amount of time away from where we are now. Was it almost like a click and one day you just felt, you know what? Everything seems to click, your, your accent and understanding people, or do you feel it did take a, a period of time for that to all settle to where you are today?

Annie: So I moved into stock control.

Kiron: Okay. Okay.

Annie: The thing with the accent and the phones was it was very... Some of the questions were technical. Obviously we, we work with a lot of people that fit in fire panels. The products that we sell aren't as-- They're not extremely technical, but when you-

Kiron: I was gonna say, can you just give us a summary of what SGI does for listeners?

Annie: Yeah. So we manufacture products that prevent false alarms, and against vandalism, products against... Yeah, so protects products against vandalism. We do, we manufacture a load of buttons, covers that go over things that protect us in our everyday environments. We are trying to shift the company in a new direction-

Kiron: Okay

Annie: ... 'cause we are very much known as the accessory company, like the covers. Everyone, someone talks to us, "SGI, oh, you guys do the covers," or the screamers as people also call them. But we do manufacture the buttons, so we are trying to get our customer base to understand that we are a bigger part of the solution, not just the accessories. So that is, that is something that we're working on as a business to, to help our customers understand that we do a lot more than just the covers.

Kiron: It's an international company, right?

Annie: Yeah. We sell globally. Our parent company are based in Michigan in the US. Our founder, Jack Taylor, started the company around 1980. He was approached by a school headmaster that was suffering with false fire alarms 'cause the kids kept setting off the alarms.

Kiron: Right.

Annie: And he came up with the invention of the first stopper with a sounder in it.

Kiron: Right.

Annie: So all it is, is when you lift the cover it sounds the alarm, so the kids think they're setting off the real alarm, when in reality it's not. It's a, funny enough, false alarm.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow.

Annie: And the company's grown from there really. We sell products that protect. Like, so we do cages, so if you're in a sports hall or schools or you're trying to protect like, emergency exit signs from being damaged or again, from vandalism. One of our biggest things at the moment is, supporting in the lockdown movement. So we'd, we're doing... We offer a product with a camera, so a button with a camera installed. So when you set the camera, when you set the product off, it starts the camera recording, or you can have it recording all the time. There's different settings and variations.There's been a lot of engineering that's gone into the product to make it suitable for vulnerable environments.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, it sounds like from where you, you were going with, your start at customer service, then into stock control, I might be assuming here, but did you get a lot of exposure in different areas of the company before you got to MD?

Annie: Yes.

Kiron: So how long were you in stock control for?

Annie: So I pro- I would say every role I've had within the company has lasted for about two to three years. When I moved in... So one of the reasons I moved into stock control is because when I first started at the company, we were doing all logistics. Everything was through the sales team. So we were raising commercial invoices for shipping stuff around the world. We were calling FedEx, DHL, you name it. We were doing the lot. And one of the things I wanted to do was separate that, so it became its own department, and there was a person accountable for it, and someone could negotiate better deals with shipping companies and freight companies, and just take, take all that ownership of... Take it off the sales and customer service team so they could focus on selling and serving the customers. And from that, I ended up taking on the stock control role which I absolutely loved. I love organising and tidying stuff up.

Kiron: Was that your favorite department that, or role that you had out of-

Annie: I would say it was the most rewarding. I was going through a bit of a tough time, and I put everything I had into, into the role. I remember being there until, like, eight o'clock at night tidying shelves and shifting boxes around because, not 'cause anyone made me, but it was just something that I had a vision of how I wanted it to look, and I made sure that it happened. I would say from a management style, I think I had maybe one or two people that were working with me or alongside me at the time, and I was taking it all on my own shoulders. I was doing everything myself. I wasn't necessarily communicating that vision very well.

Kiron: Well, weren't doing any delegation.

Annie: No. I felt, again, probably that this is my mission and I'm gonna make it happen. And that's one thing that I've learned over the years, that you can't do it on your own.

Kiron: Was that, was that because you, you mentioned you were going through a tough period. Was that because of the, the period you were, or is that, was that a general feeling that you had as an individual anyway?

Annie: I guess it's, yeah, learning. I think when... 'Cause I came over here on my own I felt like I had to prove myself quite a lot in a lot of situations. And I would say one of the biggest learnings that I've had as a manager or in, in a, in a team work environment, is that you can't take it all on, on yourself. You have to, you have to get people to understand what you're trying to achieve. Explain it in a way that they get on board with the idea, and then just make sure you've got the right people around you to, to help you execute the vision really.

Kiron: Yeah. I guess, um, that's been a common thing with some of the other guests we've had about building that team around you, and I guess they also feel that sense of inclusion, and reward when they get to put their mark on the particular aspect you may have delegated to them to look after, rather than feeling like they're just doing what you want them to do every step of the way. So you, you look after stock control. Sounds like you, you enjoyed that. Sounds like you probably learnt a lot from, about yourself in that, in that role as well. Then, then where did you, you go? Why, why would you move from a role that you particularly enjoy? Yeah.

Annie: So we, we ended up moving premises, so we moved from Redditch to Bromsgrove. And during that move, I was still in charge of the stock control element. I wasn't in charge of, like, the warehouse stuff. And what happened at the time, our sales manager, she went on maternity. And I got put in to oversee as a team leader the sales department or the customer service team, and one of the things I introduced was our system was, wasn't necessarily supporting us. So we would put orders in the system. They would go through to production. In the meantime, we would've sent off, like, an order confirmation saying, "Your order's gonna be ready in two to three days." Then the production team would come up and say, "We haven't got the stock," or, "We haven't got this." Right. And then you'd have to go back to the customers and let them down. So one of the things I introduced, I was like, "Right before any orders go into production, give them to me. Let me make sure we've got what we need to, to achieve this." And then send your confirmations to customers.

Kiron: And was that because of your understanding of the stock control?

Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So obviously taking on that team leader role, I believe I proved that I could introduce some new processes, streamline, make things a little bit better, give some more confidence to the team of what we can and can't achieve. And from that, I ended up taking on the-- I ended up doing like a purchasing manager role. And then from that I took on the warehouse as well. And the shipping logistics team.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: So things started growing-

Kiron: So is, is this a, is this a new role that you've ended up going into and creating, or were you stepping into somebody else's role at this point?

Annie: No, it was a new role.What I had said to the MD at the time is that I can't keep this going smoothly because I can't oversee what's going on in these other areas. Maybe a bit of a control freak moment. Maybe cut that out. But it was, if I can oversee this and I can get this team working together, I guess instead of against each other or in silos or whatever the, the correct terminology is, then maybe we can make it better for the, for the sales department. 'Cause I'd been in the customer service role and the sales team, I knew how difficult it was when we didn't have stuff to go back to customers and let them down, and that was something that I wanted to try and avoid as much as possible.

Kiron: Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I, I don't think it, it... You mentioned it's like a control thing, but having that understanding of how the business operates in other areas, I think allows you to be better within your role. I remember for us growing up, my parents had never wanted us to get involved in the business, but we'd always be out in the mould shop, and I'm so grateful that we had that experience of being out in the mould shop and being on the end of the machines, not just sat in the office or doing fun things like this. Because I know exactly what the guys are going through right now and what they have to do, and I think it's similar for yourself. By doing that and understanding how that all works, it allowed you to then find the areas that probably could do with a little bit of tweaking. And also they, they appreciate that you know how that all works and what they're, they might have to troubleshoot 'cause you've been there yourself. So I think it's a good thing and, and probably allowed you to be in the position you are now.

Annie: Yep. I mean, from that I ended up taking on the production as well.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: Cause I found that our warehouse stock wasn't accurate and I was like, "Why is this happening?" Like, if it comes in right and it goes out correctly, then why, where is this fluctuation? So I took on the production and I think we spent a good three months correcting, like, all our bill of materials. Like, people were just using their initiative, which is fine, and they were swapping stuff out and I was like... "You can't do that anymore." But it took us... I mean, there was... I'll do a shout-out maybe to Joe Kelleher.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: He was a massive part of making that happen. Like I say, we spent a lot of time going through every single bill of materials and correcting stuff.

Kiron: So what was Joe's role in the company?

Annie: So he'd been with the company, I think by when he left, he would've been with the company for over 25 years. And he'd grown up with the company. And he, again, he'd worked in the production and he oversaw the production team. So he was like my support supervisor in the role. And, yeah, we worked together for a long time and supported each other through COVID. So yeah, we've seen quite a few difficult times. But he moved on, I think it's a couple of years ago now, for a different role.

Kiron: Right. Okay, fair enough. So you go into stepping into production, have a little look at that. At this point, what machinery are you using?

Annie: Yeah. So at the time, there was no machinery, we were buying parts in from our parent company, buying parts in from local suppliers and doing the quality control goods in and assembling more of our products.So the investment of the machines came in last year.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: ENGEL machines.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: We've got an 80, a 120, and a 220, and it's been a game changer for us as a company as well.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: 'Cause it's, you know, it's important for the team. We call ourselves a manufacturer and it's nice to be able to say, "Yes, we are a manufacturer."

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: Obviously there's been some challenges, but I must say I've got a very, very good team in that area.

Kiron: So had any of your team been involved in manufacturing and injection moulding specifically?

Annie: So the couple- the people that we have working on the machines now have worked in manufacturing all their lives.

Kiron: Were they new people that you brought in because you were taking on to in-house manufacturing?

Annie: Yep.

Kiron: Yeah. Okay.

Annie: But again, shout out to Hugh Reel. He's been with us for over a couple of years. He was instrumental into getting this project as good as it is.

Kiron: Well, I've seen it and it's super impressive. I mean, the space that you guys had to operate within, it's tight. And it looks amazing. It works incredibly well. And I guess that's part of the relationships you build outside of even, you know, the companies we work with. It's no secret that that's part of what ENGEL do and, and help and support with. But you mentioned a couple of names there, and we touched upon it earlier, building that right team around you was integral, 'cause I'm sure you'll admit it, I admit it, that we can't do this kind of stuff that they do. As much as I wish I could do all of it, you just can't. And allowing them to flourish, I think gets the best out of everybody and, and helps businesses grow.

Annie: Yeah, for sure. He's,he's very... Hugh is, like, incredibly, when there's a problem, he finds a solution, so that's great.

Kiron: He likes figuring it all out, doesn't he?

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: I think he's-- I know, I know him on a personal level as well, and I had conversations with him where I'll say, "Oh, what do you think about this?" And he'll come in at the weekend, he'll be like, "Oh, mate, I'll be thinking about that all weekend. By Monday, I reckon I would've figured it out." Like, he just, he just loves it.

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: Which is a great asset to have. So, was the idea to take on the manufacturing in-house because you were, you were having troubles? I'm sure probably COVID was impacting a lot of supply issues and maybe pricing and stuff like that as well.

Annie: So yeah, kudos to our previous MD, Steve Hunt. He,one of his ambitions before he left or stepped down was to make sure that we were, we had the capability of doing our own injection moulding. And we did it.

Kiron: Yeah. Did you say last year?

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: Wow, okay. Yeah. I thought you guys had been doing it for more than that.

Annie: No, they got delivered March last year.

Kiron: Wow.

Annie: Yeah. And we've been fully operational since July. Just slowly, slowly bringing stuff in.

Kiron: And did you take all three machines at the same time or?

Annie: Yeah. All three machines.

Kiron: You just went for it.

Annie: Mm-hmm.

Kiron: Nice.

Annie: Yeah. We wouldn't have fitted the small one in if we hadn't gone for it at the beginning, so. Like you say, you've seen the space. We've maximised as much space as we can. And, you know, we, we wanna help our customers. We, we have a massive variety of products from, like, tiny to huge enclosures. And we wanted to make sure we've got the capability to be able to support that.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah. For sure. So you, you brought into in-house manufacturing, you've got experience around different areas. Conversation about MD. So how long have you been in the role of MD now?

Annie: April Fool's Day.

Kiron: Okay. Was that deliberate or?

Annie: I think so. I think he's stitched me up there.

Kiron: Yeah.

Annie: Yeah, 1st of April.

Kiron: Okay. And how did you get much conversation before April about the possibility of that?

Annie: So I stepped into a director role a couple of years ago. Just over two years. Steve has always believed in me more than I've believed in myself a lot of the time. And he's definitely encouraged me and directed me into taking on more challenges.

Kiron: Did you think he knew about this plan probably long before you probably did?

Annie: Yeah, he, I think he can see the future.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: He says he can, so yeah. Yeah.

Kiron: Yeah. Okay. And so, so when he... There must have-- I assume there was a conversation where it was the idea was floating around, but he kind of sat down with you and said, "Right, honey, I'd like you to take on the role. I wanna step away from the business." When was that, do you remember?

Annie: So that, yeah. I would say conversation started a couple of years ago, so he gave me a lot of time to prep and introduce some changes and try and find myself, so I was ready to step into it. A lot of people have said to me like, "Oh, wow, what's changed?". "How are you feeling about things?" And I'm lucky enough to... Obviously, there is more to it, but it hasn't been a shock.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. It was a nice smoother transition rather than just straight in at the deep end.

Annie: Yeah. And I've been really grateful of that. And, you know, people have known about me stepping into this role, let's say for a couple of years, and it's great to have, again, built a team around me, because I couldn't do it without the people around me. Like Dave Budd, he's our finance director now.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: He's also my partner.We work together really well.

Kiron: Yeah. What's that, what's that dynamic like? 'Cause obviously I'm also part of a family business. How, how do you find working with your partner?

Annie: Yeah, I love it, to be fair. I, you know, we, we... When we're at work, we're at work. If we disagree, we disagree, but it's, you know, we work through it.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: And Dave always is the voice of reason.

Kiron: Okay. Yeah.

Annie: So if I get overwhelmed or if people are coming to me with like loads of stuff, I'm like: "Right, Dave, where are we with this?"

Kiron: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annie: So we sit down- Often, if not every day, at least once a week and think, "Right, where are we going with things?"

Kiron: And are you able to switch on and off the work life and home life, or does it often overlap?

Annie: It's challenging but I think that's probably more down to me. You know, it's a new role. I've got a lot going on in my head at times. And what I do now is I record myself on my ideas, and I leave it until the next day, where I write as much down as possible. But yeah, I do go on about work probably a bit more than I should.

Kiron: Yeah. Well, the thing is, when you're passionate about the role, it doesn't like... I get the sense you probably feel the same, is it's not really work when you, you are so invested in it, you are so passionate about it. I have the same with clients, like if I need to speak to them on a weekend... fine, because it's, it's important, and I care, and I know you're very much the same. So it is difficult sometimes. It's the people around you that I think, you need to be sometimes conscious of, that for them it might not be everything. But it's a difficult, it's a, it's a difficult balance to, to switch on and off. But, like you said, you're still figuring out the dynamics at the moment with your new role.

Annie: Yeah.

Kiron: So is there anything, uh, that's surprised you about the role?

Annie: Not surprised me. I would say that, you know, the situation in the Middle East at the moment is worrying. You know, the team, we had a really good year last year in terms of efficiencies and growing team morale, and I think this has probably just been a little bit of a hit this year. But it's not anything, like I say, we've got through COVID. It's nothing that we can't overcome. Just gotta stay calm and just keep looking as far ahead as humanly possible at the moment.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annie: And, you know, my ambition is to keep growing this company as, you know, efficiently as possible.

Kiron: Yeah, I mean that's the thing, like you said, is there's so, so much up in the air that none of us can control. But I mean, I don't know if you're finding it, we're finding that people are a little bit more hesitant to make decisions. Which I do understand, but then equally, if everything comes to a stop, it almost makes the situation worse rather than powering through it, and waiting for everything to... It will settle, like most things do. But it's, it's difficult to, when you are relying on external clients to help drive some of the ideas you might have internally, it would be easy if you just ring them up and say, "Look, just go ahead with it. It'll all be fine." But it doesn't quite work like that. Obviously, navigating the geopolitical landscape is, you know, an impossible task. Is there anything that you are excited to make your mark on as, as MD of the things that you might be able to control a little bit?

Annie: Yeah. So our previous MD, Steve, was very strong in R&D, engineering. I would say my quality and what I'm gonna focus on more is, is the people side of things. So my focus over the next few months is to gonna, is to make clear accountability, role descriptions, so everyone knows exactly what they're supposed to be doing and where they're contributing to the overall picture.

Kiron: So they feel part of the bigger picture.

Annie: Yeah, for sure. Like if going back to the football, you know, if you've got a striker that thinks he's a defender and a midfielder at the same time, he's gonna be burnt out very soon, and also not delivering what he needs for the team. So I think having that clarification of what people should be doing is gonna be instrumental to how we cope and deal with these challenges that are, that are hitting us left, right, and center at the moment.

Kiron: Yeah. I mean, you said to me off-air about the branch you guys have over in Ireland. When was that founded?

Annie: So that was just after COVID. So that was really interesting. So, we set the branch up within three months of move, of going to Ireland. And it was during a very challenging time because it was lockdown. So there wasn't, there wasn't a lot going on. I moved out there with the MD, and I stayed out there for six months.

Kiron: Right, okay.

Annie: And from the 1st of May, we took on our operations manager, Richard Gaffney.

Kiron: Okay.

Annie: And he's absolutely fantastic. He actually helps me quite a lot with running the warehouse here in the UK as well. And Marie Hennessy, she looks after our procurement and helps me with the stock control and the purchasing side. And to be honest, I don't think I could do it without them.

Kiron: Yeah, yeah.

Annie: They've been a massive support to allow me to get into this role. And yeah, I can't thank them enough.

Kiron: So how, with your ethos as MD, and it's very people-centric, how's that, is that a bit of a challenge when you've got a branch over in Ireland that you might not be able to be there as often as you obviously can be here? How's that work?

Annie: I don't know how to explain it, but Irish people are so friendly. And like the guys... I go to Ireland, and I come back with a completely different power in me.

Kiron: Feel recharged.

Annie: Honestly, you can walk into the room and they're like, "Are you okay today?" Like they actually care about the person. Like I was like, you know, when we first started this interview it was, there's a person behind every role within a company. And yeah, they're so welcoming as a team, but also as people.

Kiron: So do you feel it, it maybe wouldn't work if it was a different country and different people?

Annie: I don't know. All I can say is that I'm really grateful that we are, we have the branch in Ireland and that we, I've had the opportunity to meet such incredible people.

Kiron: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then the other thing I wanted to ask you about is, 'cause there's two ways of looking at it. I think I know what, what you're maybe gonna say to this, but being a female MD in a industry that's very male dominated, do you see that as a superpower or not?

Annie: I wouldn’t say a superpower. It is definitely a male-orientated industry. And I do think that the reason behind that is because, you know, more men start off as engineers when they're very young. And, you know, that takes them through their journey, and they end up becoming, after 30, 35 years in the industry, they become influential, instrumental, sorry, into what is necessary to keep our environments safe. I think the way to change that would be to try and encourage younger females into the engineering roles, which I do believe is happening more and more. But I think having that experience on the ground and being able to see things and influence how things are done for the future, there will be much more confidence in females.

Kiron: Well, I think, I think seeing representation like, like yourself in the role that you sit, I think is gonna be integral to helping with that. The reason I, the reason I use the word superpower, and I agree with you, it's a, you know, it's a quite a big phrase, but there is a, there is a difference, I think, between when you probably walk into a room and how memorable you are and the conversations people might have with you. I have it and I'm just about clinging onto it. People seem to remember me 'cause I'm young in the industry, but naturally, that will, will fade as time goes on. I use it with my mum all the time. Whenever we go to networking events, I'm always, "Mum, come with me." "Come with me. Because if you're in the room, people gravitate towards you, people remember you," and that's key to then building that network. I just wondered if, if you'd shared similar experiences. Do you find that, or do you find it kind of works against you in some, some ways as well?

Annie: I think I should definitely start taking more advantage of it, if that's the case. Yeah. I think, it depends on how interesting you can be when you walk into a room, and I think it's all about the confidence that you bring with you. You know, if you can walk into a room and talk about the discussions that are taking place it puts you in a much stronger position, for sure. There are a number of female MDs. We're seeing more and more of them, and that's a fantastic thing. But it's all to do with capability. I think if you're capable, then it shouldn't really matter whether you're male or female. But I do feel that increasing the number of women in the industry, like any industry, is to try and get them in from a young age so they can understand exactly what's going on.

Kiron: Yeah. No, fully agree with that. We're gonna finish with a little segment, which is our made or broken segment, which is our version of this or that. So I'm just gonna give you a few questions. Don't overthink it. Don't give any backing behind your answer. Just quick fire, okay? Back yourself or seek reassurance?

Annie: Reassurance

Kiron: Specialise or stay broad?

Annie: Specialise

Kiron: Be liked or be respected?

Annie: Be respected

Kiron: Speak up or stay quiet?

Annie: Speak up

Kiron: Innovation or consistency?

Annie: Innovation

Kiron: Routine or variety?

Annie: Variety

Kiron: Perfect

Annie: For sure.

Kiron: Thank you very much for joining us.

Annie: Thank you very much.

Kiron: You've been listening to the "Made Podcast," a podcast that speaks to those who have made it in the industries that make things. Thank you to our sponsors, ENGEL, and of course, the team at Pod Collective for bringing this all together.